'The Last of Us' director on Ellie and Dina's relationship: 'This is not just a crush'

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This communicative contains spoilers for “Day One,” Episode 4 of “The Last of Us” Season 2.

One of the archetypal places Ellie and Dina research erstwhile they scope Seattle is Capitol Hill.

“What’s up with each the rainbows,” asks Dina, played by Isabela Merced, arsenic the brace marque their mode done a desolate vicinity decorated with tattered LGBTQ+ Pride flags connected horseback.

“I don’t know, possibly they were each optimists,” responds Bella Ramsey’s Ellie arsenic they walk by a mural of a rainbow heart.

It’s an aboriginal tease of however Ellie and Dina’s narration volition advancement successful Sunday’s occurrence of “The Last of Us.” The 2 of them person been dancing astir each different — physically and emotionally — since sharing a buss successful the archetypal occurrence that has perpetually been played disconnected arsenic drunken antics. (Despite immoderate viewers believing they were protesting a spot excessively overmuch for it to not person meant anything.)

But aft surviving harrowing encounters with an equipped militia and a horde of infected — and revealing immoderate idiosyncratic secrets — the mates yet gets unneurotic and consummates their romance successful “Day One,” the 4th occurrence of the HBO post-apocalyptic drama’s 2nd season.

“We wanted the assemblage to beryllium precise disquieted astatine the opening of that scene, close up until the kiss,” says Kate Herron, the episode’s director, during a caller video call. Before said kiss, Dina is holding Ellie astatine gunpoint, convinced she volition person to termination her not-quite-girlfriend aft being bitten by a fungal zombie. And portion Herron wondered if audiences would beryllium aggravated astir each the changes astir Ellie and Dina’s narration from the game, “I emotion that [showrunner] Craig [Mazin] moved this [moment] to aboriginal successful the series. I deliberation it’s much impactful and much astonishing due to the fact that not everyone watching volition cognize [they’re together] successful the game,” she says.

Herron describes herself arsenic “a monolithic fan” of “The Last of Us” games, which she played back-to-back aft buying a PlayStation console during the COVID-19 lockdowns.

“It conscionable blew my caput successful presumption of what a video crippled could beryllium successful presumption of storytelling [and] however it commented connected empathy,” she says. “I deliberation it’s 1 of the champion stories astir empathy ever made. I was obsessed with it.”

The British filmmaker is nary alien to monolithic franchises. She’s acquainted with bringing moments that admit queer characters of these fashionable shows onscreen successful antithetic ways. Herron was the manager and enforcement shaper connected Marvel Studios bid “Loki” erstwhile the eponymous deity of mischief confirmed his bisexuality during a speech with Sylvie. She besides co-wrote a 2024 occurrence British sci-fi staple “Doctor Who,” successful which the show’s titular Time Lord falls successful emotion with a bounty hunter.

“It’s a monolithic privilege to get to archer these stories,” says Herron. “It’s not mislaid connected maine that successful wide mainstream popular culture, we don’t spot galore stories similar this. So determination is decidedly a consciousness of responsibility, but besides monolithic gratefulness, successful getting to archer these stories.”

While she had nary hint which occurrence she would beryllium directing erstwhile she landed “The Last of Us” job, she suspects however overmuch she talked to co-creators Neil Druckmann and Mazin astir Ellie and Dina contributed to the assignment.

“I didn’t inquire for this episode, it was fixed to me,” says the queer filmmaker. “But I was truthful excited erstwhile I work it. The communicative was precise meaningful, and I knew if it was meaningful for me, it would person to beryllium meaningful for tons of different people.”

“ ‘The Last of Us’ communicative and the satellite is precise harrowing,” she adds. “That’s wherefore we truly loved this occurrence due to the fact that astatine slightest for this 1 hour, we get to spot Ellie and Dina blessed together.”

Herron, successful a speech edited for magnitude and clarity, discusses Ellie and Dina’s relationship, filming the “Take connected Me” country and getting to tackle horror.

What were your thoughts connected however Ellie and Dina‘s relationship had been progressing implicit the people of the play truthful far?

I haven’t been successful an apocalypse similar they have, but I recovered the concern precise relatable. Is this idiosyncratic into me? Are they not into me? Are they queer? Are they not queer? Me and a batch of my friends person had akin experiences to this. But the happening I ever came backmost to, beyond my ain acquisition and what connected to me, is making definite it felt authentic and conscionable making definite their emotion communicative felt earned. We wanted that infinitesimal successful the theatre to consciousness similar a large moment. For me, it was conscionable making definite to support up the flirtation, but besides the questioning astir is it going to spell successful that direction, oregon is it not going to spell successful that direction. I deliberation a batch of the clip it tin beryllium similar that erstwhile you’re archetypal falling successful emotion with idiosyncratic and I was ever trying to emotionally way it crossed the story.

Isabela Merced sitting connected the level adjacent guitars

I admit that adjacent successful a scary mushroom zombie apocalypse, young radical inactive get to acquisition the queer rite of transition of questioning what benignant of feelings you person for a friend.

I deliberation that’s what’s truthful important successful a bully genre communicative anyway. If you instrumentality everything distant from a bully genre story, what is it truly about? I was ever reasoning astir that with the episode. Yes, they’re successful this unspeakable concern and thrust into this benignant of revenge mission, essentially, connected Ellie’s part. But I ever wanted to marque definite that the emotion communicative was astir these 2 young radical realizing, “Oh, actually, I deliberation I’m successful emotion with my friend” and that meaning thing a spot deeper. The stories I emotion watching erstwhile they’re genre related are relatable stories embedded successful those fantastical worlds. That’s the worldly that truly hooks maine in.

Their narration plays retired otherwise connected the amusement than successful the game.

That’s the joyousness with the TV occurrence of it all. Getting to absorption connected their narration here, we truly get to instrumentality our clip truthful it does consciousness truly earned by the clip they buss successful the theater. Obviously, they’ve kissed earlier and it was precise romanticist and it was lovely, but past you are thrown into reasoning possibly Dina was conscionable having amusive oregon that it didn’t mean anything. I loved that successful this 1 you see, no, it benignant of meant everything. Look, I’m queer. I didn’t inquire for this episode. It was fixed to me. But I was truthful excited erstwhile I work it. The communicative was precise meaningful, and I knew that if it was meaningful for me, it would person to beryllium meaningful for tons of different people.

Capitol Hill is simply a determination from the game, but it was amusive to spot Ellie and Dina exploring the vicinity and not recognizing symbols of an LGBTQ+ community.

To us, obviously, the symbolism of the rainbow flag, it means thing precise specific. But to these 2 young radical successful the apocalypse, they don’t needfully cognize what that meant and what Seattle meant. And that was the knowing motion and amusive from america successful making this story. Yes, we’re going to springiness you a relatable, affectional story, but conscionable a reminder that these are not characters that are successful our existent day. I emotion that they’re talking astir that due to the fact that it sets you up for wherever our communicative is going to instrumentality you. But you’re inactive wondering, is that each we’re going to speech astir successful narration to that oregon is it really gathering up to thing that’s much meaningful? Hopefully by the aboriginal scene, erstwhile she’s serenading her, you’re like, “Oh, OK, possibly this is gonna beryllium romantic.”

Bella Ramsey and Isabela Merced looking concerned

Since you notation the serenading, tin you speech a small spot astir your attack to the “Take connected Me” scene?

Because the scripts are truthful brilliantly written, it was astir honoring the script. And I emotion that infinitesimal successful the game. We did a batch of antithetic takes of it — we got immoderate wherever she was listening to it, and she was truly into the song. Some wherever it was a small spot much tentative from Ellie. I retrieve we did a instrumentality wherever I spoke to Bella and was like, “Let’s bash 1 wherever you conscionable marque nary oculus contact.” Obviously we don’t usage that instrumentality for the full scene, but it’s absorbing to person levels and spot what felt champion to us. It starts disconnected arsenic a backstage moment, Ellie’s playing guitar and past is interrupted. But I conscionable emotion that country due to the fact that erstwhile I ticker it, I tin spot Dina is successful emotion with Ellie. This is not conscionable a crush oregon being drunk, this is simply a existent affectional happening for them both.

It truly important to punctual the assemblage that these are young people, and contempt everything, they inactive tin find romance successful this backdrop of horror. That was ever the balancing enactment for us, making definite that the information ne'er felt excessively acold away, but besides giving capable abstraction for them to autumn successful love.

It’s besides a bully reminder that contempt everything, creativity and euphony tin endure.

Since the dawn of time, erstwhile you spot idiosyncratic you like, you’re going to find a mode to impressment them. Whether that’s drafting oregon euphony oregon — I cognize I wrote fanfics for radical to effort and impressment them. When you spot idiosyncratic who has a truly bully originative accomplishment and they’re doing it truly well, what is not charismatic astir that?

I asked if we could get a caterpillar for the country and I was truthful thrilled erstwhile Craig said yes. Because I retrieve successful the game, it’s that beauteous backdrop down Ellie, and I wanted to person this overgrown plot consciousness to it, similar the Earth taking backmost over, which is crossed each the designs of “The Last of Us.” But I wanted them to consciousness for conscionable a infinitesimal successful their ain backstage abstraction and isolated, due to the fact that I deliberation they had to beryllium for it to person that infinitesimal of connectivity, and for it to beryllium arsenic impactful arsenic it is erstwhile she sings to her.

It’s a large opposition to their infinitesimal aboriginal successful the theater.

I loved however it played retired due to the fact that you’re coming retired of this large adrenaline thrust of going done the subway with them and you’re benignant of successful the aforesaid abstraction with them. You besides cognize that Dina does not cognize that Ellie is immune, and I deliberation that’s specified a important thing. They spell into the theater, and you person this enactment of relief, and past the adrenaline is close backmost up again due to the fact that present Ellie could beryllium successful superior danger. And it’s adjacent worse, due to the fact that you’re reasoning that can’t beryllium what happens, she can’t get killed by Dina. I retrieve talking to Bella astir it. We wanted radical to consciousness implicit hostility up to the constituent they kissed. That was truly important.

For Dina, clearly, there’s thing deeper than relationship going connected there, which we established with “Take On Me.” But truthful overmuch happens betwixt that constituent and the theatre that you are a small spot connected the obstruction astir whether these 2 characters are going to get together. So it was making definite that the hostility and the play felt precocious capable truthful the buss was similar a relief, but besides capable of a surprise.

a disheveled Bella Ramsey and Isabela Merced crouched connected apical of a wrecked subway car

We besides get Dina’s coming retired communicative afterwards.

I came retired successful my 30s, truthful I recovered that code precise relatable and beautiful. Some radical don’t travel retired until much, overmuch aboriginal successful beingness and I deliberation the much we perceive these stories, the better. I cognize for me, it would person made maine consciousness brave if I’d seen a quality who I thought was footwear ass connected TV and saw “Oh, she feels similar I feel.”

I retrieve erstwhile I archetypal came out, I worked connected the amusement “Sex Education,” and that decidedly helped maine enactment retired what was going connected with me. Because I was getting to archer these stories, and I thought, “these consciousness benignant of connected to me, but I person to enactment retired why.” When I was increasing up, I didn’t get stories similar this precise often. I bash deliberation if I’d seen thing similar that, I would person conscionable felt little alone. For me, that’s truthful important arsenic a director. If I tin archer stories that assistance radical consciousness a small spot little alone, wherefore would I not bash that?

And successful this story, it’s not similar this utopia wherever they buss successful the archetypal occurrence and everyone thinks it’s great. They bash conscionable idiosyncratic who’s being homophobic. He does apologize, but still. It’s not creating a phantasy world. It inactive shows that radical person these obstacles. But it’s adjacent much meaningful for maine due to the fact that you ideate this satellite they’re surviving successful and they tin inactive find immoderate benignant of joyousness successful that and love. That ever is going to springiness maine hope, adjacent though “The Last of Us” communicative and the satellite is precise harrowing. That’s wherefore we truly loved this episode. Because astatine slightest for this 1 hour, we get to spot Ellie and Dina blessed together.

One of my favourite moments is aft Dina tells Ellie she’s pregnant, Ellie says, “I’m going to beryllium a dad.”

That’s however it was successful the publication and I conscionable emotion it. I emotion that Ellie finds retired and past instantly is “I’m each in.” I conscionable recovered it truthful moving. A lot’s happened to them both. They needed conscionable an hr to beryllium down and beryllium inactive for a 2nd and drawback up. But that’s precisely however Craig wrote it. I emotion that line. It’s truthful sweet.

You’ve besides been progressive successful different large queer moments successful large franchises, similar “Loki” and “Doctor Who.”

For me, it’s conscionable a monolithic privilege to beryllium honest. It’s been antithetic with everything I’ve worked on. “Loki” was already a emotion story, and I asked erstwhile I was successful my interrogation if we were going to admit Loki’s sexuality successful immoderate way. They wanted to, truthful past that became portion of the speech arsenic we worked connected scripts. It’s conscionable a infinitesimal successful “Loki.” Whereas with “Doctor Who,” I was conscionable pitching ideas to [showrunner] Russell [T Davies], due to the fact that helium asked if I would similar to travel constitute an episode. Because maine and Russell spoke to each different initially astir queer practice and queer romance successful TV, I asked to bash a communicative similar that due to the fact that this is however we’d go friends. And I emotion romance. With “Last of Us,” I didn’t cognize that I was going to get this script. I deliberation I did speech a batch astir Ellie and Dina, truthful they astir apt were similar “give her Episode 4.” But it’s a monolithic privilege to get to archer these stories.

Jeffrey Wright successful a FEDRA subject uniform

What were the moments that excited you erstwhile you work the publication for this episode?

The emotion story. “Take connected Me.” But the different spot I was excited astir was the subway due to the fact that I emotion horror. I wanted to truly scare people. Like the bid carriage, the archetypal 1 they onshore successful is successful a weird space and I retrieve hanging astir successful that surrounded by each these skeletons and I was truthful happy. I conscionable consciousness similar a batch of women, peculiarly successful TV, volition spell conscionable for worldly and they won’t springiness you those episodes.

I wanted to seizure however I felt erstwhile I was playing the game. Our communicative is somewhat antithetic but conscionable that feeling of panic. I retrieve erstwhile I was readying it, I asked Craig if I could adhd a leap scare with a clicker. He said, “Sure.” When I was gathering retired that with a previs artist, we added the leap scare, and Craig was truly into it. I cognize that’s not each that makes a fearfulness piece. It’s truthful overmuch astir hostility and tons of different things, but getting to dip my toed into that genre, I was thrilled.

Something that was truly amusive that wasn’t planned was we didn’t cognize we’d person Josh [Peck] successful the opening. Josh was idiosyncratic that came up successful our conversations, and helium work for the role. He was fantastic and the champion person. But I was besides excited to get to bash similar a Drew Barrymore successful “Scream” by having him successful the opening. And what an absorbing opening with Jeffrey Wright arsenic well. Jeffrey, for me, is 1 of the champion actors working. What we were filming unneurotic was precise heavy, but it was specified a joyousness to enactment with him connected those scenes and beryllium a portion of that. This isn’t his archetypal clip successful “The Last of Us” world. It felt similar a monolithic privilege to beryllium a portion of launching Isaac connected TV, truthful to speak.

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