Penn Badgley says goodbye to 'You': 'I can't do this man anymore'

This nonfiction contains spoilers for the finale of Netflix’s “You.”

He has been Joe Goldberg, the well-read manager of a New York City bookstore. He’s been Will Bettelheim, a idiosyncratic astatine a trendy Los Angeles wellness nutrient market. He’s been Jonathan Moore, a lit prof astatine a London university. And he’s been Joe Goldberg — again — but arsenic a joined man, a begetter and a budding philanthropist. No substance the name, helium was the seemingly cleanable important different whose charming and considerate exterior hid a delusional, disturbed and unsafe sociopath who goes to utmost lengths — similar sidesplitting astir 2 twelve radical — to insert himself into the lives of the women who became his obsession.

Now, Penn Badgley has shed each of those identities. His travel connected the Lifetime-turned-Netflix bid “You” reached its decision Thursday with the merchandise of the drama’s 5th and last season. Joe has been recovered blameworthy of the murders of Guinevere Beck (Elizabeth Lail) and Love Quinn (Victoria Pedretti). And successful the past minutes of the last episode, we spot Joe with a buzz chopped and successful a reddish jumpsuit, sitting successful a situation cell, skimming a transcript of Norman Mailer’s 1979 caller “The Executioner’s Song.” The past words of the series, fittingly, travel successful the signifier of Joe’s interior monologue. And they instrumentality purpose astatine the viewer.

“Can you accidental them?” says Badgley, asking for a gentle reminder erstwhile we conscionable a fewer days earlier the episodes are released.

Still sporting the buzz cut, helium is sitting successful a holding country astatine Netflix’s offices connected Vine Street, and arsenic he’s astir to bespeak connected his character’s parting thoughts, the piercing code of an exigency alert notification begins blaring done his phone‘s speakers. “Earthquake detected,” helium says, speechmaking the connection earlier showing his screen. “Drop, cover, clasp on. Protect yourself.” It’s that benignant of startling distraction, conscionable arsenic the hostility has intensified, that’s helped Joe flight detection. Badgely, though, isn’t looking for an out.

With nary imminent information wrong our radius, helium returns to Joe’s last words. (Narrating for the show’s unreliable narrator is simply a daunting assignment, by the way.)

“So successful the end, my punishment is adjacent worse than I imagined. The loneliness, ohio my God, the loneliness. No anticipation of being held, knowing this is forever. It’s unfair putting each this connected me. Aren’t we each conscionable products of our environment? Hurt people, wounded people. I ne'er stood a chance.” [An serviceman appears and slides a missive from an admirer done the bars of his cell. And Joe continues:] “Why americium I successful a cage erstwhile each these crazies constitute maine each the depraved things they privation maine to bash to them? Maybe we person a occupation arsenic a society. Maybe the occupation isn’t me. Maybe it’s you.”

Here are edited excerpts from the conversation.

What are your thoughts connected those last words? What helium says is thing you’ve talked a batch astir implicit the tally of the show.

Michael [Foley] and Justin [Lo, who took implicit arsenic showrunners for the last season] had an incredibly hard task for themselves to extremity this happening that is like, is it end-able? Is it really? I deliberation it’s a satisfying ending. I deliberation it’s the close ending. Thematically, that was wherever it had to go: him unsocial and alive. What I accidental you can’t see, what determination isn’t clip for, is to amusement him contending successful existent clip with it. But I deliberation helium besides shows america that he’s avoiding it. He’s like, “Well, it’s not me.”

We gave arsenic overmuch justness arsenic the full conception could instrumentality without breaking it. The amusement ends successful a spot wherever it’s like, what bash you bash with this? What bash we bash with with antheral violence? It’s a truly superior question. It’s not astatine each elemental to adjacent attack an answer, if we’re truly trying to see the humanity of everybody and existent justice. I deliberation it ends successful a spot that we veer toward work alternatively than distant from it.

Elizabeth Lail and Penn Badgley successful the archetypal play of “You” connected Netflix. (Netflix)

Madeline Brewer arsenic Bronte and Penn Badgley arsenic Joe successful the last play of “You.”

Right. That’s what got maine thinking, is helium getting what helium deserves, fixed what helium says? Would decease person been justice?

Honestly, what would [be justice]? There’s prison, there’s death, there’s torture and decease oregon torture past prison; there’s not getting caught astatine all. There aren’t that galore things that could happen. You spell done the list. If helium was to beryllium murdered, well, that brings up a batch of questions — namely, is that just to the idiosyncratic who has to termination him? That’s marring them, that’s leaving them, adjacent if it’s wholly justified, with an tremendous load to saddle connected a woman’s shoulders, due to the fact that it would presumably person been a pistillate [killing him]. That’s not right. There’s prison; we did that. The happening that makes it [work] — radical deliberation of the container arsenic his weapon. That’s the happening he’s associated with. But if you deliberation astir it, he’s a romantic, seductive figure. And actually, wherever helium does his astir harm is truly much successful the bedroom, the proverbial bedroom. And that’s wherever he’s really removed from the world.

It’s not torture, it’s not vengeance. She [Bronte, Joe’s caller quasi-love involvement played by Madeline Brewer] didn’t adjacent technically mean to bash it. That is the happening that makes it satisfying. I don’t adjacent cognize if it’s satisfying ideologically. In the astir applicable sense, it’s satisfying. He’s not murdered and saved from misery. Somebody doesn’t person to bash thing to him that makes him deliberation that helium has a motivation precocious crushed supra them. He’s conscionable enactment successful situation and that portion of him is taken distant truthful helium virtually tin ne'er bash it again. There tin ne'er beryllium a sixth oregon seventh oregon nevertheless galore seasons.

Had you fixed overmuch thought to what your protagonist deserved?

For years. The existent ending is everything starring up to that. It’s the second fractional of this past play and, successful particular, the past episode. The container is the evident thing. And, sure, however visually iconic and perchance satisfying would it beryllium to person him killed successful the box? He got stopped astir bare and, for the archetypal clip successful our eyes, helium was becoming a intersexual predator. That was what helium was from the opening and, whether close oregon wrong, what the amusement chose to bash was withhold the spectator from being capable to spot that, marque the ocular connection. And if it was responsible, it was due to the fact that it was making definite you bash the enactment to realize: What bash you request to see? Do you request to spot a rape? Is that what you request to spot successful bid to recognize this antheral successful a intersexual predator? I don’t deliberation we should request to spot that. It was the 1 clip successful my beingness wherever I was adamant astir being like, “No, I request to beryllium successful the slightest covering possible.” The assemblage needs to consciousness that helium is dangerously adjacent to crossing a line, for america to spot that moment. And to drawback him there, for her to drawback him there. For america to spot it, to witnesser his deconstruction successful that mode — that’s what the ending is, not truthful overmuch astir the prison.

I deliberation radical volition similar it. But there’s gonna beryllium truthful galore radical who are going to beryllium similar [rolls eyes and moans with disapproval]. OK, fair, fair. You mightiness adjacent person a point. But bash you recognize however overmuch enactment a writers’ country has to [do] ... you person to effort and crook implicit each stone. What they did, I think, is remarkable.

What was it similar shooting that series successful the woods? It was hard to ticker for each the reasons you say. Joe turned into an animal.

To beryllium honest, I loved it. First of all, hats disconnected to each of our producers. They made definite that we had saved clip and wealth by the clip we got to the past occurrence truthful we could sprout that happening similar a small movie. We had clip to marque it right. By the clip we got there, I’d invested capable that I didn’t person to bash a batch much enactment that I was truly consciously alert of. I had immoderate of the astir amusive I’ve had passim the full series. I spent a batch of clip successful my underwear and thing else. At the opening of each take, for a play of astir 2 weeks oregon so, I had to beryllium covered successful immoderate grade of blood, sweat, exhaustion. I was doing a batch of burpees, truthful it was conscionable physically ace demanding. But I got into a spot wherever it was 2 weeks of this unthinkable endurance exercise. It was a beauteous mode to extremity the show. We could instrumentality care. I should springiness Madeline [Brewer, who plays Bronte, Joe’s latest conquest], her flowers. She was an unthinkable originative spouse to bash that with. There was thing that felt hard for the incorrect reasons. I spent a week and a fractional successful my underwear successful the woods astatine nighttime — I didn’t get 1 bug bite!

After 5 seasons, Penn Badgley says goodbye to the narcissistic sociopath quality helium portrayed successful “You.” (Matt Seidel / For The Times)

You’re lying.

I’m not. I wouldn’t accidental that. That would beryllium crazy! I’m not adjacent exaggerating. Not one.

How overmuch region person you had from Joe astatine this point?

We wrapped successful August.

Did you inactive person the voiceover worldly aft that?

Yes, I had capable that my occupation was not over. In fact, astir apt 2 months aboriginal oregon something, I had to spell in. On the past day, I didn’t cognize it was my past day. And by the way, it’s astir ever been remote, but for the archetypal season. So, I’m alone. It’s conscionable 2 post-producers successful my receptor and the engineer. It’s emblematic of what the acquisition is for me. It’s like, “I’m present alone.” Of course, there’s truthful galore radical supporting but, somehow, Joe is similar a antheral unsocial successful a box. We were doing thing benignant of unremarkable for voiceover that [last] day. Because of what it was, I said, “Is this it?” That was the highly anticlimactic ending for me.

So, it wasn’t the narration with Joe’s parting thoughts?

No. The last words you perceive were the archetypal instrumentality that I did months anterior to it. My delivery, I think, was not emphatic arsenic immoderate mightiness ideate it would be. The past connection is “you.” So, I could truly gully that out, and I was conscionable like, “I’m virtually not going to springiness you different one, due to the fact that if I do, you volition usage it. I’m sorry, it’s precise important to me. Fire me.” That was the 1 elevation possibly I chose to dice on.

The past happening [I filmed] was successful prison. Actually, that was the aforesaid time I changeable that “demure” TikTok. The comic happening is, Netflix is asking maine to bash thing for it. I threw that unneurotic truthful accelerated due to the fact that the archetypal happening I had to bash [for the show] was spell successful and shave my head. They were like, “Oh, you tin bash it aft rehearsals.” I was like, “I can’t, guys. That’s a immense spoiler.”

That nighttime [after wrapping] I drove each the mode retired to to Long Island [to walk 2 weeks astatine the formation with family]. I deliberation I sat successful a agelong silence. It was surely surreal. It was a amended portion of my 30s — successful a fewer months, I’ll beryllium 39; it defines an epoch for me.

You started this travel with Sera Gamble. She stepped down from showrunning duties for the last play but remained a producer. Were you checking successful with her?

Only successful the beginning. She trusted Michael and Justin, and I trusted them. There wasn’t adjacent a symbolic hand-holding. It was nary longer her duty. Everybody was doing what they needed to do. I deliberation we astir apt texted close towards the end. She astir apt had the closest acquisition to what I experienced but ne'er successful the aforesaid clip and place.

There’s a three-year clip leap astatine the commencement of the season. Joe returns to New York with Kate [Charlotte Ritchie], helium gets his lad back, and he’s been surviving a somewhat mean life, making a pact with Kate to abstain from his sociopathic tendencies.

I liked that determination was a mentation of them trying to bash this together. In the mentation wherever everything takes doubly arsenic long, that would person been chill to research more. But we got 2 to 3 episodes wherever you bash get to spot [it]. Some of my astir satisfying country enactment is with her; helium [Joe] was astir apt the closest to recognizing himself with her [Kate]. Her quality bring these qualities that astir endanger to disrupt the full charade. But then, of course, I accidental she’s besides similar him, each that stuff, blah, blah, blah. If I had, similar a fantasy, like, [I’d similar to] research this more, it would beryllium possibly that. Just a bit.

Penn Badgley, successful filming the last occurrence of “You,” said of his character, Joe Goldberg: “In those past moments, he’s uninteresting. He’s similar a lizard. He has thing to connection ... At that point, I was conscionable like, ‘I can’t bash this antheral anymore.’”

(Matt Seidel / For The Times)

The amusement was successful the works for a while, but it arrived astatine the tallness of the #MeToo movement.

Technically, close before. When we were shooting, each the [Harvey] Weinstein allegations were coming retired — then, they were allegations.

It felt, astatine slightest then, similar determination was a reckoning and a displacement successful trying to holding men accountable.

And we did it! [he says sarcastically] Didn’t we?

Exactly. There’s been reflection connected wherever we basal today, the taste progression oregon regression. So, “You” is leaving astatine an absorbing time. How bash you marque consciousness of that?

Let maine preface immoderate reply by saying, I accidental I’m trying to marque consciousness of it similar anybody. But to me, there’s forces of disintegration and integration astatine each times. I think, culturally, we person this knee-jerk wont wherever everything is either-or. It’s specified a binary. We’ve been needing to transcend that for a precise agelong time. We’re really getting determination due to the fact that truthful galore radical are recognizing that and wanting a antithetic paradigm that includes a batch much complexity and, therefore, truth. When it comes to this show, I’m truly gladsome we’re ending and not starting now. It’s a precise antithetic moment. It seems [that] astir apt radical are much disillusioned present than they were astatine the outset. At slightest erstwhile it comes to sex inequality, successful particular, women’s rights. I accidental that indispensable mean we, arsenic countless others, were connected to something. The workout of Joe arsenic a protagonist wouldn’t person resonated if each of these truly hard truths weren’t hard and true. Nobody thought this amusement would lick it and, conjecture what? It hasn’t.

I conjecture that speaks to the constituent of his last words.

Yes, which is true. What I emotion is that helium breaks the 4th partition and it’s like, “I’m not real. OK? I’m not real. So, it’s you. It really can’t beryllium maine due to the fact that I don’t exist.” I emotion that. I deliberation the amusement leaves 1 feeling strangely good. I think? I could beryllium wrong.

Penn Badgley connected his character’s last words: “What I emotion is that helium breaks the 4th partition and it’s like, ‘I’m not real. OK? I’m not real. So, it’s you. It really can’t beryllium maine due to the fact that I don’t exist.’”

(Matt Seidel / For The Times)

Tell maine why.

I don’t cognize that I person bully reasons, but I cognize that erstwhile I ticker it, the past 20 minutes consciousness bully to me. Here’s the main reason: because, by the end, we’ve deconstructed him and made him little interesting. It’s like, bash you privation more of this man? Do you truly privation more? I’m definite there’s a mode we tin navigator thing up, but bash you really? And truthful it passes the communicative dependable to her [Bronte]. What a large instrumentality too. Again, it’s not astir the box. It’s astir the dependable and the bedroom. Those are the tools helium uses much than thing else. He seduces. And those are the things we gave to idiosyncratic else. Well, 1 of them we took distant and the different 1 we gave to her. Also, by his past country with her, wherever she got him astatine gunpoint, I recovered the muscles successful my neck, which is wherever each of the rage has ever travel out, were giving retired successful ways I’ve ne'er experienced successful my life. I couldn’t talk oregon bash thing different than unit up my lines utilizing my diaphragm alone. It was exceedingly hard to accidental thing audibly supra the rain. In those past moments, he’s uninteresting. He’s similar a lizard. He has thing to offer. I could lone “say my lines similar this” [he speaks successful forced breaths]. I was tired. At that point, I was conscionable like, ‘I can’t bash this antheral anymore.” She has everything to accidental and each the magnitude and complexity. She has each the bars to drop. Let’s conscionable usher this antheral away, please.

Were determination moments wherever you saw thing successful Joe, oregon comments that helium made, and thought, “I’ve been that feline before” oregon “I’ve done thing similar that...” How was helium a reflector for you?

Absolutely. That was my occupation arsenic an actor, conscionable to simply licence myself to marque the connections and to recognize however I americium similar him. Of course, I person similarities. Because idiosyncratic similar Joe is made — I accidental there’s aspects to predisposition, genetics, each this worldly — but really, a idiosyncratic similar that is made, which is made much analyzable by the information that they marque choices. What I’ve ever been doing with him is knowing however my ain experiences of thing that I could comprehend arsenic traumatic [and] yet grappling with my ain sadness. We each person losses and grief that is unacknowledged and unexpressed. I deliberation conscionable knowing wherever is the unit and rage successful me? That’s a much intelligence mode of saying what I deliberation I was doing intuitively each along. And that was wherefore astatine the end, I couldn’t bash it anymore due to the fact that I was like, this is conscionable exhausting. Because I’m not reasoning astir it, I’m doing it. And, so, each the clip I was connecting. He was me. I’m not him, but he’s me, successful a way. I don’t cognize if that makes sense.