Joe Biden on Trump: 'What president ever talks like that? That's not who we are'

In an exclusive and remarkably candid interrogation - the archetypal since helium near bureau - Joe Biden discusses what helium truly thinks of his successor's archetypal 100 days, positive his fears for the aboriginal if the Atlantic Alliance collapses

It is hard to judge that the antheral I greet successful the Delaware edifice wherever helium launched his governmental vocation much than fractional a period agone was the "leader of the escaped world" small implicit 100 days ago.

Joe Biden is inactive surrounded by each the trappings of powerfulness – the achromatic SUVs, the information guys with curly earpieces, the sniffer dogs sent up to expanse the country for explosives. And yet helium has spent the past 3 months watching overmuch of what helium believes successful being swept distant by his successor.

Donald Trump has deployed the sanction Biden again and again - it is his governmental limb of choice. One caller investigation showed that Trump said oregon wrote the sanction Biden astatine slightest 580 times successful those archetypal 100 days successful office. Having claimed that rises successful stock prices were "Trump's banal market" astatine work, helium aboriginal blamed crisp falls successful stock prices connected "Biden's banal market".

Until this week, President Biden himself (former presidents support their titles aft they permission office) has mostly observed the normal that erstwhile presidents bash not criticise their predecessors astatine the commencement of their clip successful office. But from the infinitesimal we shingle hands it is wide that helium is determined to person his accidental too.

In a acheronian bluish suit, the erstwhile president arrives smiling and relaxed but with the determined aerial of a antheral connected a mission. It's his archetypal interrogation since leaving the White House, and helium seems astir aggravated astir Donald Trump's attraction of America's allies - successful peculiar Ukraine's president, Volodymyr Zelensky.

• Trump appeasing Putin with unit connected Ukraine, Biden tells BBC

"I recovered it beneath America, the mode that took place," helium says of the explosive Oval Office enactment betwixt Trump and Zelensky successful February. "And the mode we speech astir present that, 'it's the Gulf of America', 'maybe we're going to person to instrumentality backmost Panama', 'maybe we request to get Greenland, 'maybe Canada should beryllium a [51st state].' What the hell's going connected here?

"What President ever talks similar that? That's not who we are. We're astir freedom, democracy, accidental - not astir confiscation."

After conscionable implicit 100 action-packed days of Trump determination was nary shortage of targets for President Biden to take from.

But his main interest appears to beryllium connected the planetary stage, alternatively than the home one: that is, the menace helium believes present faces the confederation betwixt the United States and Europe which, arsenic helium puts it, secured peace, state and ideology for 8 decades.

Just earlier our interview, which took spot days earlier the 80th day of VE Day, Biden took a ample golden coin retired of his pouch and pressed it into my hand. It was a souvenir of past year's D-Day commemoration. Biden believes that the code helium delivered connected that formation successful Normandy is 1 of his astir important. In it, helium declared that the men who fought and died "knew – beyond immoderate uncertainty – that determination are things worthy warring and dying for".

I inquire him whether helium feels that connection astir sacrifice is successful information of being forgotten successful America. Not by the people, helium replies but, yes, by the leadership. It is, helium says, a "grave concern" that the Atlantic Alliance is seen to beryllium dying.

"I deliberation it would alteration the modern past of the satellite if that occurs," helium argues.

"We're the lone federation successful a presumption to person the capableness to bring radical together, [to] pb the world. Otherwise you're going to person China and the erstwhile Soviet Union, Russia, stepping up."

Now much than ever earlier that Alliance is being questioned. One starring erstwhile NATO fig told the BBC this week that the VE Day celebrations felt much similar a funeral. President Trump has complained that the United States is being "ripped off" by her allies, Vice President JD Vance has said that America is "bailing out" Europe whilst Defence Secretary Pete Hegseth has insisted that Europe is "free-loading".

Biden calls the pledge each members of Nato - the Atlantic Alliance - marque "to support each and each inch of Nato territory with the afloat unit of our corporate power" a "sacred obligation".

"I fearfulness that our allies astir the satellite are going to statesman to uncertainty whether we're going to enactment wherever we've ever been for the past 80 years," Biden says.

Under his presidency, some Finland and Sweden joined Nato - thing helium thinks made the confederation stronger. "We did each that - and successful 4 years we've got a feline who wants to locomotion distant from it all.

"I'm disquieted that Europe is going to suffer assurance successful the certainty of America, and the enactment of America successful the world, to woody with not lone Nato, but different matters that are of consequence."

I conscionable President Biden successful the spot helium has called location since helium was a boy, the metropolis of Wilmington successful Delaware. It is an hr and a fractional Amtrak bid thrust from Washington DC, a travel helium has been making for 50 years since becoming a Senator astatine the property of conscionable 30. He has spent much years successful authorities than immoderate different president.

He was 82 erstwhile helium near the Oval Office. His property has invited nary extremity of scrutiny - an "at times addled aged man" is however the journalists Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson picture him successful their book, Original Sin: President Biden's Decline, Its Cover-Up, and His Disastrous Choice to Run Again.

His calamitous unrecorded TV statement show past June prompted further questions, arsenic Biden stumbled implicit his words, mislaid his thread mid-sentence and boasted, somewhat bafflingly, that "We yet bushed Medicare!". He withdrew from the predetermination run soon after.

Today, Biden is inactive lukewarm and charismatic, with the folksy charm that made him an predetermination victor but helium is simply a overmuch slower, quieter and much hesitant mentation of the person helium was once. Meeting with him successful person, I recovered it hard to ideate helium could person served for different 4 years successful the White House, taking him person to the property of 90.

I inquire Biden if he's present had to deliberation again astir his decisions past year. He pulled retired of the statesmanlike contention conscionable 107 days earlier predetermination day, leaving Kamala Harris constricted clip to enactment unneurotic her ain campaign.

"I don't deliberation it would person mattered," helium says. "We near astatine a clip erstwhile we had a bully candidate, she was afloat funded.

"What we had acceptable retired to do, no-one thought we could do," helium continues. "And we had go truthful palmy successful our agenda, it was hard to say, 'No, I'm going to halt now'... It was a hard decision."

One helium regrets? Surely withdrawing earlier could person fixed idiosyncratic other a greater chance?

"No, I deliberation it was the close decision." He pauses. "I deliberation that… Well, it was conscionable a hard decision."

Biden says helium went into authorities to combat injustice and to this time has mislaid nary of his appetite for the fight. Last twelvemonth astatine the D-Day celebrations helium warned: "We're surviving successful a clip erstwhile ideology is much astatine hazard crossed the satellite than astatine immoderate constituent since the extremity of World War Two."

Today, helium expands connected this: "Look astatine the fig of European leaders and European countries that are wondering, Well what bash I bash now? What's the champion way for maine to take? Can I trust connected the United States? Are they going to beryllium there?"

"Instead of ideology expanding astir the world, [it's] receding. Democracy - each procreation has to combat for it."

Speaking successful Chicago recently, Biden declared that "nobody's king" successful America. I asked him if helium thinks President Trump is behaving much similar a monarch than a constitutionally constricted president.

He chooses his reply carefully. "He's not behaving similar a Republican president," helium says.

Though aboriginal successful our interview, Biden admits he's little disquieted astir the aboriginal of US ideology than helium utilized to be, "because I deliberation the Republican Party is waking up to what Trump is about".

President Biden relished his relation arsenic the starring fig successful Nato, deploying usually apical concealed quality to archer a sceptical satellite backmost successful 2022 that Vladimir Putin was astir to motorboat a afloat standard penetration of Ukraine.

Since taking bureau President Trump has charted a antithetic course, telling Ukraine that it indispensable see giving up territory to Russia if it wants the warfare to end.

"It is modern time appeasement," Biden says of Trump's approach.

Putin, helium says, sees Ukraine arsenic "part of Mother Russia. He believes helium has humanities rights to Ukraine... He can't basal the information that […] the Soviet Union has collapsed. And anybody who thinks he's going to halt is conscionable foolish."

He fears that Trump's attack mightiness awesome to different European countries that it's clip to springiness successful to Russia.

Yet Biden has faced accusations against him concerning the Ukraine War. Some successful Kyiv and her allies, arsenic good arsenic immoderate successful the UK, assertion that helium gave President Zelensky conscionable capable enactment to defy penetration but not capable to decision Russia, possibly retired of fearfulness that Putin would see utilizing atomic weapons if cornered.

When Putin was asked constituent blank connected TV this week whether helium would usage atomic weapons to triumph the war, helium declared that helium hoped that they would "not beryllium necessary," adding that helium had the means to bring the warfare to what helium called his "logical conclusion".

I constituent retired to Biden that it has been argued that helium didn't person the courageousness to spell each the mode to springiness Ukraine the weapons it needed - to fto Ukraine win.

"We gave them [Ukraine] everything they needed to supply for their independence," Biden argues. "And we were prepared to respond much aggressively if successful information Putin moved again."

He says helium was keen to debar the imaginable of "World War Three, with atomic powers," adding: "And we did debar it.

"What would Putin bash if things got truly pugnacious for him?" helium continues. "Threaten the usage of tactical atomic weapons. This is not a crippled oregon roulette."

Biden's content successful the Atlantic Alliance of the past surviving President calved during World War Two is intelligibly undiminished.

When helium archetypal arrived successful the Oval Office, Biden hung a representation of America's wartime person Franklin D. Roosevelt connected the wall. He was calved 2 and a fractional years aft the decision of the Nazis into the satellite FDR helped to make - a satellite of American planetary enactment and solidarity. But the United States voted to cull Biden's policies and values and alternatively to endorse Donald Trump's telephone to enactment America First.

The satellite is changing from what radical similar Joe Biden person taken for granted.

"Every procreation has to combat to support democracy, each one," Biden says. "Every one's going to beryllium challenged.

"We've done it good for the past 80 years. And I'm disquieted there's the nonaccomplishment of knowing of the consequences of that."

This interrogation broadcasts connected BBC Radio 4's Today connected 7 May. You tin perceive it aboriginal connected BBC Sounds. Listen to the afloat mentation connected Political Thinking with Nick Robinson: The Joe Biden One, besides connected BBC Sounds.